Mage Class

General General Board Mage Class

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  • #3072
    moffegreven
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    Time to discuss the mage class once and for all.
    Add what you think can be done to make them more useful than just being blessbots.

    Here are some suggestions, coming from one of the few playing mage out in the field on this server.

    If other classes get to have combat skills for free, mages should atleast be able to use staffs to defend themselves.

    Magic damage on monsters must be increased. It sucks so bad that you cant even kill a skeleton on 1 mindblast as a lvl 5 mage with +20 magic effiency. To kill a celestial dragon you need about 6-7 energy bolts, which you could always kill with 1 or 2 before. Most orange bosses cant even be hurt by magic.

    Being able to meditate while running (yeah I know I’ve brought it up before and its supposedly been fixed)
    Right now it works like 50% of the time at best.

    Many spells are not working like they should or dont work at all (Shapeshift,Polymorph,Liche, Sacrifice, Necro freeze, Darkness, Earth portal, Telekinesis, Incognito, Summon creature, Summon Mammals, Animate dead, Spellblind, Summon Spirit, Control Undead)

    Maybe make Spirit Speak a better useful skill somehow?

    Nerf protections a little bit. Maybe remove lvl 5-6 from elemental/necro prots. And make it so you can actually be paralyzed by spells if you dont have the proper prots (lvl 4 necro/holy minimum).

    Being able to reveal thiefs if you stand on the same tile atleast.

    It would be appreciative if both staff and players reply their thoughts
    Thanks.

    #3085
    acidhouse
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    This.

    And also bring reactive armor back.

    #3093
    thatoneguy
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    Great points and glad to see someone address mages again.

    My biggest concern has always been that mages are just all glass and no cannon.
    Completely agree that the damage needs to be increased for spells, especially ones beyond the regular spell book that require pagans and heaps of mana.

    As far as protections go, the higher level the mage, the more skill, time, tomes/scrolls, money and dedication that has been put into a level 6 mage, and that should be rewarded with play-ability. This might require a heavy amount of reworking to make possible, but I think it would be fair and more balanced if player mages were able to cast through protections relative to their level.

    That’s to say that if a mage were level 5, then he would be able to override level 5 and below protections. Maybe at the very least, they wouldn’t completely override it, but still do damage at a calculable rate determined by their class level vs. the protection percentage they’re casting on. An example might be that you get a 10% reduction vs. protections per class level of mage. So, if you are level 5, then you would get a 50% reduction against any particular protection. A level 5 mage casting a necro spell on someone who has 125% necro protection would therefore do 75% of the damage the initial spell would have done at 0% protection, and so on.

    There’s a lot of other ways to do this, but the core problem that pretty much any class can be protected completely by spells no matter what level the opposing mage is really drags the class through the mud.

    Also had some various thoughts on skills:

    A ranger has tracking to gain information, a thief has stealth. Evaluating Int. is good for PvM, but it would be nice if Eval Int. also gave protection information for player characters. Bumping elbows in town and sizing someone up for what they are wearing doesn’t seem too improbable, plus if you actually take the time in a moments-notice-pvp scenario to use Eval Int on your enemy and do it successfully enough to not die and use the information, i’d say you deserve it.

    I’ve heard a few ideas for Spirit Speak.
    One idea I had personally is maybe Spirit Speak works the same way as Peacemaking. Mobs can be a pain for a solo mage, so might be a way to help them go deeper into dungeons.

    Could also just do something simple but beneficial, such as SS provides mana instantly like mage refresh. It sort of seems to be some form of meditation, after all.

    Maybe SS could raise your intelligence depending on your class level and skill, but has a really long cool down, or makes it where you use less % of mana when casting. It could just increase how quickly you regain mana naturally and while meditating at its simplest.

    This class is incredibly hard to play, and even harder to play well.
    As it stands– mages have as much significance as a hood ornament.
    I’d really like to see this thread taken into consideration.

    #3095
    reireirei
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    I love playing a mage, I’d prefer to hunt with one, but they really are just an accessory in the end game, even if they are essential to the economy.

    I’m just curious from the developer’s point of view, what’s holding back from sending them to the forefront? Has there been other shards that have experimented with adjusting the class?

    #3098
    orks777
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    Moff u say true. FeST[Russia]

    #3101
    spartacus
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    Raziel/Frayed

    As someone who’s played a mage and ranger everyday since the relaunch, here’s my 2c w.r.t. the suggestions in this thread…I may not have 30 ppl in my guild to have every item known to man but im active as much as the next guy (for whatever the fck that should be worth)

    Moffe: Here are some suggestions, coming from one of the few playing mage out in the field on this server.

    Raziel: seen this character 6 times in 3 months…everyone is grinding, bitching or not (ironic I know)

    Moffe: If other classes get to have combat skills for free, mages should atleast be able to use staffs to defend themselves.

    Raz: no class should have free skills; play a pp if u want other skills

    Moffe: Magic damage on monsters must be increased. It sucks so bad that you cant even kill a skeleton on 1 mindblast as a lvl 5 mage with +20 magic effiency.

    Raz: circle 6, normal spell book…try something else, I cant 1 shot a skele with a power bow either…everyone runs by this shit regardless

    Moffe: To kill a celestial dragon you need about 6-7 energy bolts, which you could always kill with 1 or 2 before. Most orange bosses cant even be hurt by magic.

    Raz…again, try other spells, celestial drag should be harder considering how rare it is (they don’t exit outside champ spanws afik)…normal spells are just that, normal spells

    Moffw: Being able to meditate while running (yeah I know I’ve brought it up before and its supposedly been fixed) Right now it works like 50% of the time at best.

    Raz… If a tick doesn’t work while running it should (pretty sure it does), otherwise use pots like the rest of us

    Moffe: Many spells are not working like they should or dont work at all (Shapeshift,Polymorph,Liche, Sacrifice, Necro freeze, Darkness, Earth portal, Telekinesis, Incognito, Summon creature, Summon Mammals, Animate dead, Spellblind, Summon Spirit, Control Undead)

    Raz….Implement the various shapeshifting spells when they stop crashing clients……paralyze spells should be prot dependent instead of free action for all…..the other spells have always been useless and/or for griefing

    MOffe: Maybe make Spirit Speak a better useful skill somehow?

    Raz…can see ded ppl talk, seems useful to me/has been to decide whether or not to res someone

    Moffe: Nerf protections a little bit. Maybe remove lvl 5-6 from elemental/necro prots. And make it so you can actually be paralyzed by spells if you dont have the proper prots (lvl 4 necro/holy minimum).

    Raz…agree with the paralyze comments. If mages can override lvl4 + prots Id make books regular items (ie: e/h/n books not blessed)

    MOffe: Being able to reveal thiefs if you stand on the same tile atleast.

    Raz…Theif hiding should have no protection against reveal spell (unless they have BR/MS/MR)

    Thatoneguy: My biggest concern has always been that mages are just all glass and no cannon.

    Raz: mages risk nothing, if u want to 1 shot ppl (which they already can) u need to risk more. ive collected plenty of gear risking nothing but 60 reags/ a few ebook scrolls…

    thatoneguy: Completely agree that the damage needs to be increased for spells, especially ones beyond the regular spell book that require pagans and heaps of mana.

    Raz…exaggeration, I have more pagans than I know what to do with (even though id love to see the quantities of drops increased for alchemy)

    thatoneguuy: A ranger has tracking to gain information, a thief has stealth. Evaluating Int. is good for PvM, but it would be nice if Eval Int. also gave protection information for player characters. Bumping elbows in town and sizing someone up for what they are wearing doesn’t seem too improbable, plus if you actually take the time in a moments-notice-pvp scenario to use Eval Int on your enemy and do it successfully enough to not die and use the information, i’d say you deserve it.

    Raz…like the idea of evaling the prots a char is wearing but beyond that it makes no sense to give anyone an advantage by observing them in town

    while im ranting, other stuff outside this thread:::::::

    Raz: 50 fishcakes a loop…unbalanced gold farming…

    Tipsy: shard will be closed in a month

    Raz: tired of seeing it man, u never play anyways (seen once when an alt was ghosting/jailed for it), quit being so negative. not everyone plays for what ur playing fir

    Russia: love the competition but stop abusing game mechanics. Using items to block crafters into going out of town is obv…explicit rule or not its evidenced by the fact u cant drop shit in dungeons

    Champ spawns: should respawn more frequently or have more of them

    Brazi Dazzles: Loved fighting them, haven’t seen a modern day shrard survive where they played (ie cheats/DDDOS when jailed for cheating)

    #3111
    reireirei
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    I was thinking of something like being able to stack spells and cast them all at once, with difficulty increasing dependent on being able to read and type out a random length of letters created server side within a period of time. Or something that lends to being quick on your keyboard, like playing invoker in dota. Something that needs to be done on the fly.

    #3122
    archaxe
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    Two suggestions: int mods and casting from books.

    Int mods: currently, strength and dexterity mods are high value because they directly translate into more survivability and faster attack speed = more damage output. Intelligence mods, on the other hand, are useless because int does nothing for a mage (except larger mana pool which doesn’t really matter – at least not enough to wear int mods on your gear).
    One suggestion is to have intelligence impact spellcasting in some way, either by simply increasing damage, or by reducing spell delay/casting speed (e.g. time beween casting until target reticle appears), or some other variant. Just make it worthwhile. Strength suffers from diminishing returns (up to a point; going from 400 to 410 str doesn’t matter much for your survivability) while dexterity is always a strong stat (400 -> 410 dex is as much a damage increase as 130 -> 140). Do something similar for int mods.

    Earth, necro and holybooks can only be used while stationary. If you run while casting e/n/h spells you instantly get interrupted. Aligning these with how normal spellbooks work would make them more feasible, i.e. allowing running while casting but have to stop to target.

    #3124
    turmoil
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    if int added damage then liche would have to be disabled. 2k intel with constant life drain would be a littttttttttle much.

    #3132
    archaxe
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    Another option would be to let damage scale only by “base int”, such as raw intelligence and int modifiers from items, but not let damage scale from int buffs (such as bless, cunning, enlightenment or liche). This would make int items and int stat potions attractive for mages, while letting int buffs serve only to increase the mana pool. Might be a nice middle ground not to make it too powerful yet still find some use for int mods.

    #3134
    thatoneguy
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    Yes, mages risk little or nothing. Yes, reags and pagans are easy to come by.
    I’m suggesting we change all of that in the name of making the class competitive.
    Even the idea of making books unblessed, that sounds fine to me. Make reags/pags harder to find and more expensive, and unbless books while also adjusting their drop rate to be similar to maybe a very rare weapon. Also assuming this would mean a wipe of all reags/pags/books.

    Really enjoy the int mod ideas. Forgot they existed to be honest. Would add more balance to the risk-factor everyones bent about to make them valuable and risked in the field.

    #3138
    acidhouse
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    A good mage do not only carry reagents in the same manner that a good warrior do not only carry a spear or a ranger with bow and arrows. Sure you can do some damage with any of them but chances for survival is pretty slim.
    I think a solution for mage class is either nerf prots a bit (have been tested and various servers before). Something like this:
    Lvl 6 prot 90% instead of 150% (lvl6 necro should also include necro paralyze)
    Lvl 5 prot 75%
    Lvl 4 prot 60%
    Lvl 3 prot 45%
    Lvl 2 prot 30%
    Lvl 1 prot 15%

    Or let mages pierce through prots in line with their spec lvls.

    Sometimes we need to stop improving/making things stronger and more op to even things out which ultimately makes the game more and more hysterical. Sometimes it is better to tune the mechanics in the opposite direction as well.

    #3139
    moffegreven
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    I swear I have better gear with my mage than most noobs we kill. Maybe if you take all that stuff you only wear in safe zone out to hunt you wont die so easily?..

    #3141
    orks777
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    Moff say true

    #3187
    willowleaf
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    I for one agree that mages need to be more then just bless bots. Back in the day my buddy could run through and Equake warriors and drop them quickly. The damage is so bad now. I think intel mods should play a role in the magic damage just like dex and str do for warriors and rangers. Idk how to get around the liche form part, but I am sure the developers could script something up. I would love to have my buddy running around with me on his mage.

    #3219
    evan
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    I had joined this shard as its based on ZH rules and one of the things I was looking forward to was making a mage as I recall back in TFR – The forgotten realms the South African shard, Mages were really deadly and you could always rely on them, I hope they get some buffs so their spells are a bit more spicy or maybe dependant on the Class mage multiply the damage output of all spells/buffs?

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