PVP

General Bugs / Suggestions PVP

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  • #1156
    sparks
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    • Neophyte

    Can’t we please disable PVP or at least until its more balanced.
    As it stand PVP is completely broken.

    The damage is too extreme and it’s become a case of whoever hits first.
    Besides, because of the above, rangers completely dominates the genre because of their range.
    Its become even more of an issue as rangers can shoot over obstacles and even through walls in some areas.

    There’s also an issue of attracting new players.
    Pvp caters for a smaller margin of players.
    With the small amount of players we have at the moment, I don’t believe we have the luxury to deter people from actually wanting to go hunting or have them rage/quit because they lost their gear.

    I’ve honestly never played on a server where pvp worked 100%. On those servers that had it, even with a larger player base, it just caused more issues and drama than it was worth.
    Most of the time people were too afraid to leave their homes or just stayed in towns.
    This made the world seem very empty.

    Possible solution would be to give players an option.
    If you want to pvp, have a .pvp command which can flag you as “red” and you would become a pvp player. Kill all other pvp flagged players you want. If you want to revert back to non-pvp, you have to pay gold.

    It seems to me that PVP might also be partly there to prevent crafters from AFK mining which could cause a flood of gems/ore etc. ruining the economy.
    This is completely negated by the fact that you can just build a house on sand, yard it up, and mine gems like that.
    Now, as a result, all the mines are empty, the world is not being utilized to its full extent, and you have a bunch of crafters just mining at home getting the gems regardless.

    As for the above mentioned economy thing, which might need a different thread.
    All we need a money dump, to move gold out the economy, to giving it more worth.
    A suggestion would be to have:
    -Purchasable GM dye to color clothing, armor and weapon
    -Character renaming
    -Shrouds
    -Revert pvp flaggin
    -Weapon/Armour personalization (IE renaming a Darkness Shield to John’s Darkness shield, or John’s Shield)
    All the above at a MASSIVE cost. I mean long the lines of 5mil per GM dye, 10mil per armour/wep rename.

    Just a thought.

    #1157
    Kieeps
    Member
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    • Neophyte

    This is a compliacted topic though, many of the players now days join only to PVP.

    I’w always been a fan of dual map shards where Trammel is the non-pvp map with a bit lower loot and lower resources from mining LJing and Felucca was the pvp-enabled map with higher resource gain and better loot for a more risk/reward kind of setup.

    But to disable PVP would probably lose more players than the pvp itself would scare of.

    Oh and about the pvp imbalance i kinda agree, rangers seems to grow stronger and stronger for each shard, probably ‘cus there will always be someone to get a bit more dex than last time and midmax the gear a bit more.

    But belive it or not, it’s not as easy for a ranger to kill a well geared warrior though.
    But imo here is the problem, atm only warrior and ranger seems to be viable for anything…
    i havnt see bards in action though, but compared to ranger/warrior dmg PVM i doubt they are on pair balance wise.

    This rift between classes is something that has grown for a long time, drifting a bit for each shard, and while classes gets buffs to get a slight bump to the top, PPs are left behind to rot, with no classe bonuses there is nothing a PP can do to a ranger with 500+ dex, when a PP does 50 dmg with a bow, a ranger will do 120ish, when a PP takes said 120 dmg from a ranger, a warrior will negate most of it.

    I know someone that might get pissed at me for saying this but… i play a Ranger and i’w played Ranger many times on basicly all shards i’w played up until now, and they really do need a nerf.. ‘cus honestly, people dont stay in towns/houses ‘cus they hate PVP, they are scared of the 2 top geared rangers in the .online list.

    But keep in mind, the imbalance now, compared the back in the days is 10% code and 90% the fact that people know the concept of MMO way beter now.

    Anyway, the gold sink would probably be a good idea, and keeping it to cosmetics is a fun idea 🙂 but i dont know of any shards where gold was worth anything after you had the house you needed to sparr/macro in.
    only shard i played that had a better economy was sanctuary based ‘cus gaining skill costs money on those.

    Enough of my ranting, i just think it’s sad when people actually leav ‘cus they get killed.

    #1158
    sparks
    Member
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    • Neophyte

    Hey Kieeps

    I agree with the power-player situation. Got mine ‘classed’ and abandoned him, only using him for ID’ing and Alchemy. I’ve heard from various sources that they might implement a PP class in the future. Whether its true or not, I’m not sure.

    Regarding PVP, I’ve had almost a hand full of players leave because of PVP. Also having a hard time to convince my old UO buddies to join because PVP shards generally have a bad reputation for stagnating instead of growing while also getting bottle-necked/dominated by well geared players who started earlier.
    When someone PK’s another player, I don’t think “Wow he must be skillful”, I think “lucky he got the first hit in”.

    Regarding rangers, one shard I played on handled rangers pretty well.
    What they did is they had dmg reduction based on range. This was so that rangers don’t offscreen kill everything or run-snipe/360-no-scope players in PVP.
    There was also something along the lines of Xbows doing more dmg and further range and less at closer, visa versa for normal bows… but I can’t be 100% sure how that worked.
    Also because at the moment the skill base for rangers is non-existent, ie you can basically afk-kill most anything on screen and clear dungeons in minutes, an interesting mechanic would be “bow swapping”. So if you come across as stone creature (stone dragon, stone harpy etc.) you would have to swap your bow to a Bow of Piercing. If you come across a buffed creature, you would have to swap your bow to something like a blackrock bow to debuff said creature and so fourth.
    I moved over to ranger myself because of their sheer dominance and I never had to change my bow or gear around for different situations. It became extremely boring.

    #1161
    dead
    Member
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    • Apprentice
    • ★★★

    I can agree on some Points on this but i disagree on a lot aswell.
    The thing with “whoever hits first” is kind of BS.
    Rangers vs warriors, warriors still got an overhand if u know how to play good pvp.

    For me pp always been bad at ZH, if u dont got like a good castweapon and some good mods.

    The pvp ive tried its really hard to kill warriors, they withstand alot of damage overall and are hard to kill even tho they are dispelled and so on.

    Ranger vs ranger is a different chapter, rangers die EASILY as hell here compared what ive seen before tbh. But its not about who shots first, its about who doesnt panic and knows how to pvp.
    The reason u feel pvp is unbalanced is due to the fact that some of us learned how to pvp properly and some of the guys got no clue how to pvp really.

    But to say that only ranger works in hunting is wrong and it kinda shows that u are not certain of the mechanics of the game.

    #1162
    sparks
    Member
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    • Neophyte

    “some of us learned how to pvp properly and some of the guys got no clue how to pvp really.”
    Maybe you can educate us then.
    On your ranger, what skills did you use? Whats your rotation? How do you micromanage your stamina?
    Against warriors, do you hotswap between Bow and Yumi to use paralyzing blow in conjunction with armour piercing?
    Against rangers, you’d prolly need to use concussion blow alongside moving shot (so you can evade).
    As far as I know, here we don’t have the above in depth mechanics that allow for competitive PVP’ing.

    Surely you don’t consider buffing and macro-targeting/attacking as “good pvping”?

    If so, here’s a pro tip everyone.

    Write a simple auto-target-and-attack-closest-player macro and have it run in the background whenever you leave town. Then set your ingame screen resolution as high as possible, this is so that the targetting have even further reach. EasUO is the best for this.

    If you can throw an auto cast spell/potion/buff on yourself before the targeting triggers, even better.
    I was testing out the above and works like a charm. Done. Enjoy being pro.

    I am not 100% against pvp’ing, as broken as it is, I enjoy it and I like the ever-looming fear. I’m just advocating for an option to players. Or have pvp zones.
    Maybe even expand the arena to introduce “pink slips”.
    Personally prefer a full active server/world over a small pvp one.

    #1166
    lonewolf
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    • Journeyman
    • ★★★★

    Damage scales way more in ZH scripts than damage mitigation or HP. Only thing that comes close is a warrior with a lot of strength mods, which I think can take quite a beating in pvp in similarly-buffed scenarios.

    Three major things influence this balance:
    1. Buffs. Don’t expect to stand a chance in pvp against someone with decent buffs if you eat magic fishes or get regular buffs from your level 3 mage friend.
    2. Class level. At least for warriors and rangers which I think are kind of in a league of their own in pvp, be spec5 or work on getting there.
    3. Items. About as important as the other two points combined and then some. Things that are going to pretty much decide the outcome of the fight before you even engage include stat mods, high enough melee prot, whether you have blackrock, are immune to poison or can inflict poison.

    Seeing as newcomers will have a huge disadvantage in all 3 categories, or at least 2, they will die in 1-2 hits from most veterans. So I would argue it’s not about who hits first, but about if the player with large enough advantage hits you at all 🙂

    Anyway, I think a way to ease new people into the world somehow would be a great addition, but as for how to do it I’m at a loss. Perhaps Felucca/Trammel split would work nice. Only spawn lesser bosses in the non-pvp world and set the loot a bit lower.

    I also think some upper challenges for veterans pvm would be nice. Right now the hardest mobs drop the same stuff as all other world bosses, they just take a lot more time. Blue Slaads might be the hardest mobs and they are much more efficient to kill as a group that to solo, but they don’t drop anything special so mostly it’s just a waste of time. I always thought lv6 tmaps would have the potential to be worth doing “end-game” but currently they aren’t worth it either afaik.

    #1167
    sparks
    Member
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    • Neophyte

    Hey lonewolf

    Yeah, I’ve personally tried wrapping my head around this situation a lot. I don’t think there’s a quick and easy fix.
    However, I am super keen on the Felucca/Trammel split idea, or something a long those lines.

    Getting new people in and having them stay should be primary focus. If players can safely hunt, mine, traverse the land, and just basically enjoy the game, the more time they’ll invest. The more time they’ve invested in a character, the less likeliness they’ll leave/rage-quit.

    For those who are deep in the endgame and bored, can then venture to the PVP zone and go wreck each other. Besides, when you’re at that point, you’ll have your backup-set and your back-up-back-up-set etc. What I mean is, by then you’ll have more gear than to know what to do with it.

    When I’m skill/gear capped I’d dual other similar players, winner gets all… losing wasn’t that bad at all, because then I had something to do again. I looked forward to the gearing process.

    When you’re less ‘wealthy’ and don’t have much except what you have on your character, losing all of that hits way harder.

    #1175
    dead
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    • Apprentice
    • ★★★

    I can now see that I was being quite ignorant, but i kinda dislike the whining about rangers being the best classe to play and so on.
    And for the record I never liked guys promoting pps in ZH considering the Zh scripts is about classe system.
    Warrior and rangers are the best to play pvp for sure. And yes i think that pvping need some change, do i think it can be done with the scripts we got? Not really, unfortunately.

    And correct me if im wrong, have u tested out hunting/pvping with a lvl5 char or just at low lvl?

    #1176
    sparks
    Member
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    • Neophyte

    Hey dead

    I apologize if I came across as being short tempered in my previous posts. I’m just frustrated with the diminishing player base.
    We’re down to the high 20’s from the low 50’s.
    And it’s not a case of there not being new players, cause I see new players almost daily, its a case of them not sticking around.
    I was quick to blame PVP’ing for being the primary problem, but now I believe they’re just partly the problem.

    Issue might lie with the fact that there’s no natural progression. There’s not much for new players to do apart from just macroing. Macroing/sparring is a big part of the game, but expecting everyone to macro 24/7 for a few weeks until they’re strong enough to venture out of town is a bit rough.
    Maybe a newbie dungeon/zone might help.

    I don’t care much for PP’s, as in, them being a class doesn’t bother me. The more options the better I say. The thing that holds PP’s back is how long it takes them to class and that they’ll never be as strong as a C4 or C5 of any other class.

    I’ve got a high level ranger I’m playing on.

    #1177
    avery
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    • Neophyte

    Hello, i’ve read this post a few times but didnt bother untill now to comment. I see that you haven’t been playing zuluhotel, not much atleast i would assume. Pvp itself isnt broken. Sure pp could possibly be tuned up a bit but apart from that ranger is weaker here then how they usually are. Not the damage itself but since we are unable to cast any high circle spells with magery.

    Zuluhotel has and will always be item based. I dont know what or who killed you but dont expect to be able to compete with someone with twice as much stats as you. As much as you can argue the fact that ranger is luck based, thats not really entirely true is it? if that was the case every ranger would be able to compete among each other. Trust me when i tell you, that is not at all how it is.

    How i see it, the problem is the players, most people don’t play the game, they sit here and whine about things that could be different. In some cases these posts are related, but very rarely.

    I’m not argueing the fact that this shard has flaws because it does, especially when it comes to loot levels and bosses. But for the major part its the players.

    What makes uo fun, or rather zuluhotel playstyle is the fact that it is item based, and when being killed or while killing someone, you can loose everything. That is what makes me want to play zuluhotel, there is no other game that can offer me the thrill of hunting players and having messy pvp fights against other groups.

    If you wanna kill monsters safely id suggest you play runuo or even wow seeing as they provide just that. Dont try to change a game into something it isnt 🙂

    #1180
    sparks
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    • Neophyte

    Hi avery

    I agree. I’m dropping the subject.
    Thanks to those who commented.

    #1182
    Kieeps
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    • Neophyte

    Oh great Avery, now ye scared him 🙁

    #1185
    sparks
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    • Neophyte

    Hey Kieeps 🙂
    Nah, nothing like that, I just realized I’m in the minority.
    Avery is right, those who don’t like the way things are won’t join or have left already. There’s a lot of other shards out there.

    Just want to add something before I go.
    A server is dictated by the Dev’s and their Players, not by the scripts. Scripts can be added and altered. Played on plenty of ZH servers over the years and they were all different in one way or another. Saying “you don’t have experience on a ZH server because you don’t like -insert mechanic-” is not a fair statement to make.

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